Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

topic posted Tue, April 29, 2008 - 5:24 AM by  Earthdancer
Hi all. So, I have scheduled a Dr. appointment for my son, for tomorrow, to check into getting the Diptheria/tetanus shot, without Pertussus included. He has only had one vaccine in his life (he's 3 1/2). It was DTaP...and he has an extreme reaction. Thank goodness he's okay now, but it was scary.
So, anyhow....he's a farm kid, and I think he should have the tetanus round...if nothing else. Does anyone else have experience with the DT vaccine? Recommendations? Information? Thanks and Blessings.
posted by:
Earthdancer
Vermont
  • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

    Tue, April 29, 2008 - 4:30 PM
    I recommend doing away with even that vaccine..there are homeopathics that can help with tetanus..personally I dont think the risk is worth it long term..I would be looking into alternatives in regards to tetanus...go well..
    • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

      Tue, April 29, 2008 - 6:00 PM
      So, do we start him on some sort of homeopathic if he steps on a rusty nail or peice of fence? How would one fight a case of tetanus? It's a real killer. I'll certainly look into that.
      • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

        Tue, April 29, 2008 - 6:31 PM
        Hi there! My husband runs an upholstery company from our home, and often brings in nails and staples on his shoes. Aside from the risk of choking, I worried about tetanus. I have not let my son receive any vax.

        I have also decided against the tetanus. I have learned that tetanus is rare even under circumstances when it is more likely. Really cleaning a wound will solve the problem in most cases. Also, the tetanus vax has one of the worst list of ingredients.

        Also, if there are signs of tetanus present, early action is also great.

        Good luck with your decision. I did not hesitate to say no to all the others, but this one was a tough call.
      • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

        Wed, April 30, 2008 - 8:39 AM
        Most doctors buy their vaccinations in lots (MMR, DTaP, etc) from the manufacturer. They pay for them up front, then get reimbursed over time as they use each one. Therefore most docs don't like to carry rarely asked for vaccines (such as singles of anything)- that's money out of pocket for them that they run the risk of losing if they never have any requests for it and it expires. It's not a conspiracy to thwart parents, it's a business decision for them. But because of that, you may have to shop around in your area to find a doctor or pharmacy that carries it.

        I was reading the most recent online Mothering Magazine and there was a Q and A to Dr Sears where a woman wrote in asking where she could find a single vaccine she was wanting for her child in her area, and he told her which pharmacy to go to.

        You can decide to go with a homeopathic remedy if you wish, but i wouldn't mess around with tetanus myself. The biggest correlation for getting tetanus isn't a rusty metal puncture wound- which is the popular idea- but rather a surface scrape around horses. Wooden fencepost, rocks, tree branch- whatever. Horses are *IT*

        Tetanus is a slow moving infection so it's true that you can go in within a day or two of the wound occurring and get the tetanus toxoid and immunization and be ok, the problem is recognizing the wound as being significant. Like i said, everyone thinks tetanus when there's a puncture, but most tetanus infections occur with much shallower wounds.

        My son doesn't have any vax yet (he's 2) and there are very few he's gonna receive, but because his grandparents live on a farm with horses and i don't want to go running to the ER every time he gets a scrape i am going to do the tetanus for him.

        Just my 2 cents worth
        • kt
          kt
          offline 25

          Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

          Wed, April 30, 2008 - 12:16 PM
          Nice post Jessica.
          (1) I thought it would be rare having my little one exposed to rusty nails (as we most assoc. with tetanus) but I was really surprised how often we encountered rusty fences, nails, metal scraps in the city backyard, alleyways, parks....
          (2) After taking Biology and learning how wwretched the disease is, I do strongly want to protect my son from it.

          Good luck, post where you found single doses!
          • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

            Sat, May 3, 2008 - 2:21 PM
            Thanks from the heart, everyone. We postponed the appointment, as I didn't feel fully educated and ready. We are farmers, organic style. I'm considering postponing the vaccine, and eliminating the use of horse maunre on the veggie plots. Thanks for everything, and please educate me more, if you have something to offer. Blessed Bee from Lettuce Bee Farm.
            • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

              Sat, May 3, 2008 - 2:22 PM
              Oh...and the State of VT covers vaccines, including little-requested ones, through dept. of public health.
              • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

                Sat, May 3, 2008 - 2:35 PM
                Crikey I do think fear dominates our society these days...in regards to what if's...
                We as children grew up with a backyard of wrecked cars and we used to play in them all the time..my father owned a car wreckers on 3 acres...we would run around in his workshops..chop wood...roam across farmers paddocks..light fires...climb large trees making tree huts...we were around metal and animals and were barefoot most of the time...
                And same for most of the kids we grew up with..and none of us got tetanus..
                We used to share the same drink bottle..stay out till dark...be hauled around in cars with no seat belts etc...
                Sure life has become more populated and some risks higher..but I do think trust comes in there.,..cos one could get the vaccine worried about that..and then find they get some other life threatening illness or situation occurs...there are no guarantees..and vaccines are pushed by the pharmaceutical and doctors bcos they get paid to...

                I would also research into colloidal silver...it kills at least 650 pathogens..and we have used it for various things...topically and internally...
                • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

                  Sat, May 3, 2008 - 3:21 PM
                  We skipped Tetanus along with everything else. It was the last one to be crossed off my list.
                  I wish I could remember what tipped the scale for me to just decide not to worry about it.

                  Just to clear this up, Tetanus has NOTHING to do with metal or rust.
                  Tetanus comes from animals/manure, especially horses. The rusty nail association is based on the fact that horses step in their own manure. When they lose a nail/shoe, the nails have been mired in the stuff and provide the sharp point to scrape or puncture the skin.
                • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

                  Sat, May 3, 2008 - 3:49 PM
                  the only vaccine my 13 year old daughter has EVER had is plain tetanus...and she just got the shot last Tuesday.I took her to a naturopathic doctor who is totally supportive of our non-vaccine home health care thus far, she too said tetanus shot was probably a good idea. I was on the fence.about it,

                  my daughter left this morning for a school-sponsored trip doing rainforest Outward Bound in Costa RIca (lucky!) and tetanusis the only one required for entry into the country.I could PROBABLY have got a philosophical exemption,but like I say,I'm not a fanatic or a shrieker ineither direction on this.

                  I still am.not overly worriedabouttetanus and could probably clean and treat a wound to prevent infection without antibiotics or shots...have done so,in fact but,unfortunately for morethan the naturopathic aspect of it,I'm not on this trip to the rainforest, and my daughter IS.(Ironically,I lived in Costa RIca 30 years ago as a naturopathy-based village health worker.the doctor overseeing us,or shoudl i say collecting money from us for being there and sitting through his classes and helping people with primary care needs, , was a bit of a nut, but it was a good experience anyway.)...but not overly panicked about one single vaccine,

                  tetanus and diphtheria vaccines are both made from bacterial toxoids, not living or while organisms that can cause disease.(a toxoid a product of bacterial metabolism,in this case of the Clostridium tetani bacterium, that is what produces disease in the host. )

                  anyway..with a younger child, to choose an "alternate"vaccination program,such as single-toxoid tetanus vaccine,you will usually just have t deal with the resistance of a pediatrician who goes with the current recommendations because she or he is unfamiliar with alternatives.

                  you might want to look for a physician who is a licensed naturopath and shares a practice with a supportive MD, (that's who we went to)or find an MD who is good at working with families who select alternative courses of care based on their own research and good sense.

                  good luck!


                  (gawd, i wish *I* was headed back to Costa Rica this week...and I prooabbly wouldn'tt update my tetanus booster unless I WAS injured.or they made me do it to get into the country)


                  chances are if you are younger than 60,you got inoculated against tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis, and polio, and smallpox too if you are over 35. of these,smallpox has been declared eradicated and wild-type polio nearly so inthe developed world. they stopped routine smallpox vaccines by the early 70s,

                  I;ve researched pertussis a lot(had a mild adult case myself a year ago,probably immune for life now at age 51.) the vaccine wasneverMEANT to last a lifetime, and it doesn't. mpreon tha tlater...

                  there is a Diphtheria-tetanus shot as well as a tetanus-only shot. they generally give the tetanus "booster" if you've been injured in a way where you might be exposed to the anaerobic bacterium that causes tetanus (they offered me one at .he ER when I cut the side of my head by runningintothe corner of a fire extinguisher box atthelaundromat..lameaccident,Iknow. tI think that's the same one they gave my daughter.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

                    Sun, May 4, 2008 - 1:57 PM
                    I don't want to sidetrack the discussion, but i've just read all the new posts and i'm getting pretty hurt and a little sick of hearing the "Evil Doctors are all out to screw our health and our children for profit" theme that comes up over and over again- not just here but on other threads too.
                    I am a doctor (or more accurately, i will be in about 12 months), and there's lots of other doctors out there like me who are open to alternative medicines, slow/no vax, etc..... but it's really hard to be part of the conversation when there's such an "us vs them, good guy-bad guy" mentality.


                    • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

                      Sun, May 4, 2008 - 4:07 PM
                      I don;t think I said anything even close to that "evil doctor" stuff.,so I hope you haven;t taken offense at anything I said about doctors. I'm planning ongoing to naturopathy school myself, was pre-med in the more classical MD sense when i was younger. think doctors of all sorts can be important allies.

                      honestly, now, one thing about going into almost any profession is that it wilLalways have its detractors. almost every job I;ve worked has been within the healing professions in some way, and there are always criticisms and even prejudices against teachers,doctors,nurses, social workers,mental health professionals,lawyers, accountants,advocates for socia ljustice,disabled people,librarians,farmers, ...you name it,someone can say something unfair or unkind about it.

                      you didn't really ask for advice,and I mostly want to acknowledge you as an obviously caring person who will most likely be an excellent doctor. but let me aay...

                      do try to keep a little more perspective and a thicker skin, for your own happiness and sanity. if a few people are adamant about hating doctors, or not wanting a vaccine at all, the chances are you will never have to encounter them professionally. it;s rather like religion...if someone has to evangelize for a faith I don;t share,it's best NOT to argue...just move on to a more compatible venue.

                      good luck with your studies and your career, and I for one WOULD be interested in what you have to say about vaccines etc. please don't be afraid of people...most of themlike you,arejust trying to find their ownplace intall.

                      peace.
                      • Jessica!

                        Sun, May 4, 2008 - 6:23 PM
                        How are you? I used to see you around here more often... or maybe it's me who's not around as much :)

                        Are you sure this is the thread you meant to post to?
                        I reread the whole thing, and can't figure out where you saw any criticism of doctors/the establishment at all!

                        I can understand why people feel as if they need to defend themselves against Western Medicine,
                        and also why caring physicians could get sick of feeling bashed as a group.

                        I'm afraid I'm with Judith. It comes with the territory, and you're going to have a rough time with things if you can't let some stuff roll off your back while you focus on what you CAN do for the paranoid/skittish folks you encounter. People get paranoid for a reason, and if you can help some of us get good healthcare despite our histories of having been poorly served, if not hurt by MDs, well... that will be wonderful.
                        I am sure you are the right person for the job!

                        ...
                        I had a friend who really wanted to do Tetanus alone, but was unable to find it in a dose appropriate for her toddler.
                        She ended up deciding it was important enough to her that she consented to the DTaP (or whatever it's called now)- but there must be some way of getting a pedi-sized T shot. Anyone?
                        • Re: Jessica!

                          Sun, May 4, 2008 - 7:00 PM
                          It was most likely me she was referring to..
                          I dont hate doctors...and Iam aware there is a very small percentage that are wholistic..but very small..
                          I do not like the monopoly of promotion that comes with their work..advertising constantly for flu injections and here we just recently had a meningoccol campaign shoved down throats with fear pushing it..and as it was at the time they introduced those free vaccinations,the disease was already on a decline..and moving on out..and after the vaccines...of which NZ were guinea pigs...(it was shown in Sweden to have adverse affects) then there were those vaccinated getting strains of the disease and also having other issues related to it...
                          So that is Govt for you which here in NZ is closely entwined within the medical community...
                          So many people believe it bcos the doctors said so...and really people would do best to not see doctors as gurus cos they do here...fix this fix that instead of looking at diet emotions and lifestyle etc...
                          There is def a place for them in my world mostly for diagnosis ..then I can make alternative choices..but yes they do serve a positive purpose to and save many lives...
                          • Re: Jessica!

                            Sun, May 4, 2008 - 8:38 PM
                            "I would also research into colloidal silver...it kills at least 650 pathogens..and we have used it for various things...topically and internally.."

                            Yup- we love this stuff too- we use it a lot. My son is 10 months and not vaxxed, and has never been sick. He also has a pit on his ear, and the colloidal silver has helped a lot. We also use tea tree oil on the pit- although he is stinky after that!! :)
                            • Re: Jessica!

                              Fri, May 9, 2008 - 6:35 AM
                              Sorry guys- yes, i'm not around as much anymore (school gets busier and busier), and yeah- i was having a "sensitive" day. Thanks for understanding.
                              • I have a question...

                                Tue, May 20, 2008 - 3:09 PM
                                How deep does the wound has to be to contract tetanus? A doctor told me you could get it from falling and scratching your knee on the sidewalk. And now that my daugther fell on the sidewalk and scratched her knee, I'm a little concerned. She didn't bleed and I cleaned it but there's so much contradictory info out there that I don't feel confident about what I'm doing anymore. I would really appreciate some feedback.

                                Thanks!
                                • Re: I have a question...

                                  Tue, May 20, 2008 - 7:23 PM
                                  It doesn't have to be that deep, but a sidewalk isn't as chock'o'block with germs as soil is. If you cleaned it pretty well afterwards, well- i dunno, i'd feel comfortable with that.
                                  • Re: I have a question...

                                    Tue, May 20, 2008 - 7:40 PM
                                    <<but a sidewalk isn't as chock'o'block with germs as soil is.<<

                                    i live in ny. i'm far more concerned about what's on the sidewalk than what's in the soil.
                                    • Re: I have a question...

                                      Tue, May 20, 2008 - 8:27 PM
                                      about the soil and sidewalk thing, and the depth of the wound...and I do get what you say about city sidewalks!


                                      here's what I remember from micro class (which iI'e taken twice in the last 10 years , but the first time around was better and I retained more)

                                      the bacterium that causes tetanus,Clostridium tetani, is anaerobic..lives in no-oxygen (or more properly,no O2 = sorry scientist types, no subscript available that I know of in text here) so it;s more likely to be living in the soil a little ways down than on the sidewalk. there are other bacteria that you'd be y more likely to find on the sidewalk.all the clostridia serve important ecological functions down there in the soil...they degrade various types of organic matter so that itis available for other organisms...

                                      it;s easier to clean and oxygenate an abrasion than a deep puncture wound. but yes you COULD get tetanus from scratches and abrasions especially if you can;t clean them well for some reason. buttheyhave a much better chance of getitng into your bloodstream in significant numbers from a puncture instrument. if your puncture wound bleeds a lot,you;re actually better off (until it gets to significant blood loss) because the flowing blood washes out the organisms the nail or whatever sharp object introduced. I don't use powerful botanical skin healers such as comfrey and aloe vera on deep wounds for this reason...don't want to close the surface off prematurely.

                                      other species of Clostridium include the one that causes botulism. most of the Clostridium bacteria are soil inhabitants that form endospores to survive through times of dryness or changes in nutrient availability in the soil.

                                      hope this helps some...judith (with an old microbiology text and my reading glasses at hand...)
  • amy
    amy
    offline 0

    Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

    Mon, May 26, 2008 - 8:25 AM
    I'm so in the same boat with a 16month old. How did the dr appointment go? Did you get the DT? I'm having to take my daughter on June 2 and nobody at the dr. office will answer me as to if they can even skip the pertussis all together.... I have to go in and speak w/ the dr. first. I'm sure I'm going to go in there and they'll make an attempt to scare the hell out of me, so hopefully I'll be educated enough to state my concerns properly.

    My daughter is 16 mo old and not vaccinated...
    • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

      Mon, May 26, 2008 - 9:29 AM
      Amy, can you go to that appointment without your daughter?
      That way, it's easier to stand your ground and make it clear you make up your OWN mind before anyone touches your child.
      • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

        Mon, May 26, 2008 - 1:01 PM
        yes good question and foresight...
        • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

          Sat, June 21, 2008 - 8:04 PM
          what about putting honey on a wound, as an ointment under a bandaid? does anyone know of topical healing properties of honey? and say your child got a scrape on the sidewalk or in some dirt, would you wash the wound carefully with soap and water and then use the st. john's wort tincture and then perhaps some honey and a bandaid? and does anyone know of any herbal/homeopathic internal remedies for tetanus? i will have to look into collodial silver.
          • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

            Sun, June 22, 2008 - 11:45 AM
            Well...I skipped the Dr.Apt, as i just wasn't ready. They did say that i could give him "booster" Tetanus vaccine, but I don't know if that would be a good thing. Just still not sure, but know that i reach for the colloidial silver with every boo-boo. My herbalist friend highly reccomends putting St. Johnswort tincture on every puncture wound, just after it happens.
            • Re: Tetanus Vaccine without Pertussus

              Sun, June 22, 2008 - 1:29 PM
              okay, maybe i will start using st. john's wort instead of hydrogen peroxide, but if the wound is especially dirty i think i will clean it out with soap and water first. and then honey????? anyone??????? :)

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